Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities
rocamocha ☕ — Today at 6:12 AM
you FD fS right, if they fS again you can throw
so maybe they start committing to a blockstring
if it goes 5H GF we've covered you get IAD jump in over it
5H BR has the potential to stuff this, but midscreen most of the time it has issues and can even whiff
in the corner BR is even worse
BR is an explicit read from the Sol player and if it doesn't work...
• if stand FD blocked, both are 0 at about roundstart spacing
• if normal stand blocked Sol is minus and just out of 5K range
• if FD crouch blocked Sol is minus and just out of 5K range
• if normal crouch blocked, the opponent gets a completely safe attempt at a basically auto-timed IB against 5K mash from Sol which leads to a full punish
• if there wasn't any FD on the string before the BR, well... BR is really bad here
overall FD crouch blocking everything leads to the best scenario, but depending on character's unique options the extra pushback from FD stand blocking parts of the string may be desired
---------------
• after FD blocking fS you can backdash most things with the exceptions being 6S, 6H, and delay BR
delay BR has to be timed again to catch jump and not be true, this timing is harder than catching the 5H GF punish jump
• notice that each of these is not that great on-hit without CH or meter
• if 6S is FD blocked, GF can be jump punished again
• the punish is guaranteed if it is FD stand blocked, the spacing is inconsistent if crouch FD blocked
• after FD blocked fS, 2D will reach IF they continue to FD or crouch block if they let go of FD and hold 4 for a few frames, 2D will whiff making this situation much safer for the defender if they know this
• if Sol does delay BR after 6S to catch jump punish for GF, it again has to be timed - and this one feels a lot harder than the other ones, Sol is not going to hit the tight delay BR against FD 6S on reaction so it's pretty safe to just hold up back unless the Sol has explicitly practiced this and is committing to the read(edited)
[6:14 AM]
i don't have nitro so bear with me lol
• in the fS 6S (to catch backdash) situation on block, if only the BR is not FD blocked it lands in your face for guaranteed punish, so either way it is bad for Sol
[6:20 AM]
• FD fS puts Sol at a range where to strike/throw you he has to run in a pretty good distance, making reaction throw and chicken block pretty good
rocamocha ☕ — Today at 6:33 AM
• if point blank 5K 6S is IFD'd defender gets the same spacing for the above fS 6S situation
• if a 5K that only gets the second hit to touch is blocked, it is free GF punish no matter how they block, BR on block is ultra punishable
[6:39 AM]
• in essence, to stay safe against someone who is using FD with this knowledge, Sol either needs to back off or use fake gunflame to block or anti-air a jump-in punish
SneakySnek — Today at 6:42 AM
i just have one question about the 1st situation (fd blocked f.S)
[6:43 AM]
you covered going into BR
[6:43 AM]
but not BB
[6:43 AM]
which is actually safe when spaced
[6:43 AM]
also, the autotimed IB against 5K leads to a full punish, but what if the sol player goes 5K>2D or 5K>6S
[6:43 AM]
yes 6S can be thrown but 2D beats the throw
[6:44 AM]
i agree with the conclusion that sol needs to also use GF feint but I'd say sol needs to use GF feint regardless because GF can always be jumped out of (or interrupted if too close) if the opponent knows about it
[6:45 AM]
luckily many people seem to not know yet
SneakySnek
i agree with the conclusion that sol needs to also use GF feint but I'd say sol needs to use GF feint regardless because GF can always be jumped out of (or interrupted if too close) if the opponent knows about it
SneakySnek — Today at 6:45 AM
well maybe not always, always, but it depends on spacing and can be done
[6:45 AM]
faster characters might even (?) get the punish on GF string enders even without fd
@SneakySnek
which is actually safe when spaced
rocamocha ☕ — Today at 6:58 AM
uhhh ill do more on this later but my reasoning for not at the moment was because BB itself can be 6P'd and imo is pretty gimmicky from the ground since you can't adjust the timing
quick test found that crouch FD fS 5H BB is punishible by Ky with backdash 5k midscreen
FD blocked fS BB, the punish is a little tight but is still a legit punish
SneakySnek — Today at 6:58 AM
yea BB can be stuffed but I'm thinking if someone FDs it makes their frame data even worse so they have to call out BB even more confidently i guess
[6:59 AM]
gotcha
[6:59 AM]
like the opponent has to be really woke to consider all of these options and still get the punish of BB
[7:00 AM]
(ok i FD'd f.S, now do i throw or keep blocking, ok they did 5H, now do they GF, GF feint, BB, BR)(edited)
[7:01 AM]
of course they can just keep blocking which is the safest thing against all of these options
[7:01 AM]
but it's also probably what the sol player wants, for them to keep blocking
@SneakySnek
also, the autotimed IB against 5K leads to a full punish, but what if the sol player goes 5K>2D or 5K>6S
rocamocha ☕ — Today at 7:01 AM
at the range it puts you at, if defender keeps crouching the 5K completely whiffs which is really bad, and to go for those gatlings Sol has to early commit to them and press as fast as possible and can't go into them on reaction so it is an RPS but favored towards defender getting their turn back, or getting the spacing for 6S > special RPS which is slightly defender favored if Sol does that string
@SneakySnek
like the opponent has to be really woke to consider all of these options and still get the punish of BB
rocamocha ☕ — Today at 7:02 AM
yeah like you really gotta be awake to force the Sol to think
rocamocha ☕
at the range it puts you at, if defender keeps crouching the 5K completely whiffs which is really bad, and to go for those gatlings Sol has to early commit to them and press as fast as possible and can't go into them on reaction so it is an RPS but favored towards defender getting their turn back, or getting the spacing for 6S > special RPS which is slightly defender favored if Sol does that string
SneakySnek — Today at 7:03 AM
oh yeah that's right 5K be like goofy high
[7:04 AM]
i always commit to those gatlings early though
[7:04 AM]
maybe I'm stupid but why on earth would i not when 5K is -14
[7:04 AM]
unless i really want the dash cancel
[7:05 AM]
i guess I'll be on the lookout for some of these situations
[7:05 AM]
esp in higher level play
rocamocha ☕ — Today at 7:07 AM
mmm maybe i misworded that, the spacing is like tipper 5K, so if Sol isn't like mashing the followup out of 5K and expecting to get both hits since they did bandit revolver on block, they could definitely just miss the cancel window(edited)
[7:11 AM]
i think it's crazy how much the risk/reward changes from such a simple thing
vloomn(testament4strive) — Today at 7:13 AM
You can also jump cancel 5k on block and do 66brc for some nasty fuzzy setups
[7:14 AM]
Also nice conversion from 5k on hit
rocamocha ☕ — Today at 7:16 AM
like you don't FD fS and what, you can like try to interrupt or throw another far slash with a P or K and get like nothing, with the risk of getting counterhit by the frametrap
if you do FD fS you get a bunch of good options none of which are at risk of getting counterhit, and can force Sol to think (like without FD backdash into whiff punish in the picture when the hell is Sol going to fS and then 6S)
if you get a full punish off you pretty much regain the meter you used to gain the option in the first place
vloomn(testament4strive) — Today at 7:17 AM
Idk about fd against sol, if they fd you can do 66fs and it becomes the same situation, and they spend meter. Also harder to fuzzy jump during fd. Sorry if you already pointed this out I just have really low attention span(edited)
[7:18 AM]
I'd say the only definitive answer against sol rps is ibfd, but that's insanely hard lol
