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In this episode, Mike talks about race, both in America generally and the legal system specifically. He uses the story of Italian internment in World War II to explore the idea of "otherness." Out of preferences and perceptions, as well as a history of identifying white culture with professionalism, the legal industry has created a context that's hostile to African Americans. Resolving that distance will only come after first owning our ugly history.   Episode Resources Connect with Mike Whelan    White Lawyering by Russell G Pearce:   Why the US Needs Black Lawyers:   Police killings can be captured in data. The terror police create cannot.   Thomas Schelling, Micromotives and Macrobehavior:  

Kathryn Rubino talks to Lia Dorsey, newly elected President of the Association of Law Firm Diversity Professionals, and Director of Diversity and Inclusion at Dentons, about Biglaw's response to the violent deaths of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and Ahmaud Arbery, and to Black Lives Matter. Episode Resources     Episode Highlights A difficult topic - 1:13 Tangible actions behind words - 2:34 Lia’s role and Biglaw’s role - 3:20 All the firms' different statements - 4:25 Lia’s piece of advice for law firms - 7:20 The culture of a firm - 9:13 An opportunity for the firms’ leaders - 10:06 Everybody has a role to play - 11:42 How we can move forward - 14:11 Having access to money and resources - 18:49 Promoting diversity - 19:57 Nobody has the right answer right now - 23:36   Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Follow on Leave a review on