Ostensibly, Panic makes Apple software, like the award-winning Transmit, Coda, and Status Board. But how many Apple software developers team up with the creator of Katamari Damacy to print and sell their official t-shirts, or manufacture a series of deadly accurate Atari 2600 boxes for non-existent games? Cofounder Cabel Sasser shares the unique story of how Panic stayed independent at all costs, as well as some of the challenges along the way. Recorded in September 2013 at XOXO, an arts and technology festival in Portland, Oregon celebrating independent artists using the Internet to make a living doing what they love. For more, visit http://xoxofest.com. Video thumbnail by Ian Linkletter: http://www.flickr.com/photos/linkletter/9892159725/ Intro Music: Broke for Free, "Breakfast with Tiffany" http://bit.ly/xo2013broke

Because creativity, it’s just so much — it’s so inwardly focused. And I find that it’s so helpful to be pulled out of that system, otherwise I can just drown in myself. [Having a day job] means you can just make whatever you want to make. And what’s more independent than that? What I’m talking about is a problem of success, but we need to make sure that it’s not taboo to talk about the problems of success if we want to be successful. If we want ourselves and other people to be successful, we need to address the problems on the other side as well. I don’t want to drown in other people’s expectations. My own are hard enough. If what you make goes anywhere, it’s because other people carried it.